June 13th, 2019 By: Ash
Ash Roy: 00:00
I believe you have a course on how to get started with MiniChat and it’s a free course, so everyone listening is going to want a piece of that course. They, how do they get it? Because I’m going to post it in the show notes of this episode, which by the way, you will get at productiveinsights.com/molly-pittman.
Ash Roy: 00:21
Welcome back to the productive insights podcast. This is ash Roy, your host, and I’m delighted to have Molly Pittman with me today. Molly is a digital marketing expert and educator. She’s the co-host of perpetual traffic, a digital marketing podcast that has been downloaded over 3 million times. She’s certified thousands of marketers in paid traffic and customer acquisition and personally spent over $8 million on paid traffic, maintaining a positive return on investment. Molly started her career at digitalmarketer.com as an intern in 2012 and she held that position through to 2014 where she became the VP of marketing. She excelled in that role until 2017 where she started her own consulting agency. Most recently. She’s cofounded trainmytrafficperson.com which is a 15-week mentorship for media buyers. She now spends her time setting strategy for some of the world’s fastest growing companies. I’m delighted to welcome Molly Pittman from trainmytrafficperson.com. Welcome, Molly.
Molly Pittman: 01:26
Hey Ash. Thank you so much for having me.
Ash Roy: 01:28
Awesome to have you on the show. We’ve been like ships passing in the night meeting at various conferences, but I’m really delighted to have you on here. I love what you’re doing. I love your energy. I love the honesty that I feel comes from you and it’s really an honor to have you on the show. So thank you for being on.
Molly Pittman: 01:45
Yeah, thank you so much, Ash.
Ash Roy: 01:47
So we here to talk about Facebook as an advertising strategy and I’d like to start with the elephant in the room and that is, and that is the not so recent Cambridge Analytica scandal. Facebook has been scrutinized quite a bit and more recently I was watching the F8 talk from Zuck. It had the Tagline, the future is private, which I did find amusing. And to Zuck’s credit, he did say that they don’t have the best track record when it comes to privacy. However, you know, they had tried to remedy that. So let’s start the conversation there. Facebook has taken a few hits and, legislators in the United States, looking at it very closely, there’s been scandals around the elections. There’s a lot of implications. Should we as advertisers be embracing the Facebook platform or should we be considering other options, particularly in light of Google’s recent announcement that they will be offering a lead-based result based advertising approach where you only pay for leads that you actually generate?
Molly Pittman: 02:59
Yeah, great question. I mean, first off, I believe you should always be using more than one advertising platform. You never want to rely just on one platform. You don’t want to put all your eggs in one basket. I do think like looking at Facebook and Google, they’re very, very different platforms. Google, of course, is more query based. Facebook is more of an attention grab, right? Someone’s NetSuite and not necessarily in the moment of, you know, needing a new microphone, which I just got, which is very exciting. But through Google, you can express that in intent. So I tried to never compare the two, but I think they should be used together to create a full traffic system. Now in light of Cambridge Analytica, that was definitely a huge wake-up call for Facebook. I think it’s also important, you know, Facebook represents the can valley.
Molly Pittman: 03:55
They represent this tech world of very young entrepreneurs, most of them who have no idea what they’re doing other than they’re a core competency, right? And you kind of have to look at Zuck in that way. I mean not to defend what happened or that any information should ever be leaked. But I think it’s good to look at that in perspective. I think also with Cambridge Analytica, you know, there, there was information leaks about us as users, a portion of us but I know in the US at least every few months, there’s a huge credit card company who’s accidentally leaked credit card numbers or social security numbers. None of, if Facebook doesn’t have access to information that’s that sensitive, right? So you know, a company might find out that you like Dave Matthews or they use a certain APP, which I’m not saying that that’s not important information, but I just always like to put that into perspective about what actually happened here.
Molly Pittman: 05:00
And I think that Facebook was made an example, you know, of this whole industry of people, which I’m a part of and I’m young and inexperienced in a lot of sides of the business and I make mistakes, right? And so anyways, I think what you’re seeing from Facebook, they’re definitely trying to win back the public in terms of privacy and that trust factor that, Facebook is going to take care of me and my information. But I think as an advertising platform, it is still the most powerful one out there in a reason is that they evolve, right? Facebook evolves and I think they just have a certain knack, Zuck especially to really know where the puck is going. So I think Facebook advertising as it stands today or when it first rolled out, it was, you know, the right-hand column and we got the newsfeed right that we are starting to shift away from that.
Molly Pittman: 05:57
I’ve noticed that even in the last few months, I don’t log on to Facebook as much as I used to scroll through a newsfeed. It just doesn’t really serve where I am in my life right now. But I still do log into Instagram daily. I look at my stats a lot on my iPhone. I spend over an hour on Instagram a day, which is a lot of time. Yeah. But a lot of that is, is work-related. I’m in Facebook Messenger, I use WHATSAPP, all owned by Facebook. So I think that traditional Facebook advertising in the newsfeed, okay. And what we think of as advertising, I think that will start to phase out. But Facebook has already acquired platforms and properties that are going to allow us as advertisers to evolve with them into the new age of whatever social media and communication looks like.
Ash Roy: 06:55
Fair enough. I think you’ve made some very valid points. I agree that the context of the bigger picture, yes. It’s not like they’ve shared in credit card data and so on. Yes. Companies do to make a lot of mistakes. I think one of the reasons they’re getting so much scrutiny is because there are around 2 billion people on Facebook and they have about a hundred data points on each of these people. So I guess they owe us to some degree is on Facebook to really get it right. That said, the data per se is not very sensitive and yes, WhatsApp is fairly secure. It’s quite encrypted. Instagram hasn’t been so far sullied in terms of its privacy. Yeah.
Molly Pittman: 07:37
And Instagram is different too. You’re not giving Instagram as much information about yourself. Think about that. There’s not as much written text, you know, the profiles are much simpler. And I think that that’s why the younger generations are moving more towards Instagram and especially Instagram stories.
Ash Roy: 07:53
Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, so now that we’ve got the big elephant in the room, out of the room, let’s talk about where you see Facebook evolving. So I really agree with you that Facebook has evolved. Well, they are able to skate to where the puck is going to be and they’re doing a good job of that. And it seems like the conversation is moving from the feed to Facebook messenger and we are seeing a fair amount of interaction happening via messenger and we’re seeing the rise of the bots and we’re seeing artificial intelligence come into its own as our friend Mike Rhodes talks about, which reminds me, I’ve got to get him back on the show as well to talk about artificial intelligence. So we’re seeing all those cranes happening. Where do you see the puck hitting towards when it comes to Facebook advertising on messenger and do you see it stopping there or is it then going to move from messenger to somewhere else again?
Molly Pittman: 08:53
Hmm. Good. It’s hard to know. I try not to spend a lot of time of too far in the future just because I want to be present in what’s happening. I do know that Messenger is, the reason this is happening is actually from the consumer side. So consumers are wanting more one on one conversations. I think that especially in the United States with the last presidential election and just the climate of the world today is there’s a lot of turmoil. It’s, it’s not always positive and it’s a reason that I choose to spend less time in the newsfeed because I’m not always looking for that one to many message that you know, you see on Facebook I would much rather consume photos on Instagram. I would much rather have one on one conversations or group conversations with friends inside of a platform like Messenger. So Messenger became popular back in 2016 for advertisers when they allowed us to start marketing inside of the platform.
Molly Pittman: 10:00
It’s one of the fastest growing platforms and I think the biggest differentiator, I guess I’m kind of getting off topic here. I don’t know necessarily where things are going. If I think they will, I think messenger will continue to evolve heavily into virtual reality and we’re going to see a lot of crazy things happened with messenger. Maybe we’ll be able to record podcasts together, you know, through messenger and it will be like, you’re sitting here in the room with me, interviewing me. I really believe that we’ll be there and in five years. So I think that’s where Messenger’s going. But I think that Facebook’s also, you know, bolting on platforms like Instagram that still has a social media nature, not as much of instant communication, but that is more relevant to what we’re wanting as consumers. So Messenger is just one piece of this big equation and our ability to, I think what’s interesting with messenger, it’s been really hard for marketers to catch on to Messenger.
Molly Pittman: 11:03
And a reason for that is it’s a completely different way of advertising than we’ve really experienced unless we’ve done phone sales or one to one conversations to sell our product or service. So I think that has, that’s been interesting for me to see how marketers are adapting to messenger. And the biggest I would say block that I’m seeing is not the inability to change your mindset, but just the understanding that messenger is very different from email marketing. It’s very different from traditional Facebook ads, etc. I mean it’s different because it is that one on one conversational nature. So it’s not a one to many message, right? It’s not a billboard on the side of the street. It’s not Facebook newsfeed. It’s marketing to someone via the automation of certain messages and triggers that you can set up in a tool like mini chat. So instead of saying, Hey, I’ve got this free lead magnet, you know, figure out how to plant as successful, you know, apple tree, right download here, which you would go through the newsfeed leading off to your website. It’s a very different experience. You are more so asking questions to figure out if something’s if someone is interested in what you have to offer. So it’s more conversational than it is a one to many broadcast a certain sales message that we have.
Ash Roy: 12:37
But here’s the challenge that we need to balance and messenger and that is we are moving into a world of mass customization and automation through chatbots and so on. But then the customer also wants to feel like they’re talking to human being and that they don’t want to be talking to bots. You know, one of the most disappointing feelings is when you’ve been chatting to a Bot, even if it’s brilliantly put together and then you realize it’s a Bot and not a human being. I think it’s very good to be right up front and transparent about it and say, I am a Bot. You know, I’m here to serve you and I will bring you in contact with a human based on what you share with me here. So that way the customer doesn’t feel let down. Would you agree with that?
Molly Pittman: 13:20
Totally. Yeah. I’m always up front. And I think it also depends on what you classify as a Bot. You know, people will, people don’t care if it’s a Bot, as long as whatever the experience that is occurring is leading them to an end result that they’re looking for. Right. That’s a good point. So, I mean, it could, it just, if it’s a meaningless conversation where someone just typing words in and expecting an answer, you know, that’s definitely not where Facebook messenger bots are today. But you know, if they’re looking to take a quiz to figure out which supplements or vitamins they should take every month, you know, we’re very used to being asked questions through automation or through form fields on websites. And so in my opinion, that is what the modern day bot is via Facebook messenger. Now in any moment where they might have the expectation that they’re speaking to a real human or want to speak to a real human, I’m always completely upfront and hey, you know, click below to speak to a human or hey, I’m, you know, and make up a name for your Bot. I’m the Molly Bot and here to help you. But it would like to talk to a human click below. So I think it’s also people’s understandings of bots and what they are today in 2019 on Facebook. It’s basically still, you know, it’s, it’s instead of the automation of an email sequence over a week, it’s the automation of a bunch of back and forth very quick messages really is what it is.
Ash Roy: 14:57
Yes. If you’re able to make it very clear to the customer that this is a Bot, there is no sense of smoke and mirrors at all in that situation, then I think you’re managing the expectations implicitly in the customer’s mind and the customer’s not going to feel like, oh, but I mean I thought you were a person or you’re a human. So I, I really liked that approach. And coming back to your point about intent, I think I was talking about this to Rand Fishkin, I can’t remember which episode because he’s been on three times, but Ran was explaining the importance of understanding intent when it comes to search intent. Generally, the intent with which someone comes to Facebook is a little bit different to the intent with which someone comes to Google. So when we go to Google, we are usually going there to solve a problem and the buyer’s mental status far more disposed to making a purchase and they’re probably more open to buying quicker in the cycle.
Ash Roy: 15:54
Whereas historically the way Facebook has evolved is we want to find out what our neighbor had for breakfast or whatever they’re trying to do on Facebook and we’re just wasting time or wasting time. And so advertising on Facebook was by definition interruption based and Facebook was able to la that challenge by creating hyper-targeted advertising through their targeting processes, which are very sophisticated. Oh, so the way Facebook has evolved, there’s been bit bit different to how Google is evolved. So to that extent, I think that intent really that separates the two platforms. But in light of the fact that Facebook started off as interruption based advertising and now we’re moving more into bot based culture, I’d say through Messenger. Would you say that people are a little bit more open to a Bot based interface and Facebook as compared to say something like Google?
Molly Pittman: 16:46
So basically would they be more likely to trust a bot in Facebook than in Google? And my opinion, yeah, absolutely. In the reason for that is that people go to Facebook, I said to waste time, but mostly to be entertained. Right? I mean that is the biggest reason you go to Facebook. People go to Google to get stuff done. You’re either searching, you’re checking your email, you’re checking your calendar for tomorrow. And so think about, you know, I look at the time, I should record this, but the amount of time I spend on a Google property or on Facebook every day, it’s much longer on Facebook. And so anyway, I’m going to Facebook to be entertained. And therefore I think that bots, especially bots, as I said, that provide, you know, some sort of end results, make the end user feel like they’re making progress, give them something of value. People are much likely to be skeptical on Facebook than if you know, a random bot pops up in your email inbox through Gmail. So, I guess it depends on the application of the Bot, but it’s why Facebook makes much more sense to go even the Messenger routes. Yeah. Than Google does.
Ash Roy: 18:07
Okay, cool. All right. Manychat versus mobile monkey. Which one do you prefer?
Molly Pittman: 18:13
Well, I’ve never used mobile monkey and I’m a huge manychat fan. I was one of the first people on the platform. So manychat all the way of mostly just because I know the guys behind it. I mean I’ve, I know of Larry Kim and mobile monkey, but I know the team at manychat, I know how hard they work on the tool and they’re really building it. Yeah. To help grow businesses. So I will always support that. But I’m sure there are other tools on the market that are amazing also. So I just remained bias.
Ash Roy: 18:47
Yeah, fair enough. I appreciate that. The Candace, so how does one get started with using Facebook messenger and manychat in particular? I would imagine one of the first things you really need to do is really understand your audience and just about everything in business comes back to that. In my personal opinion, really understand your audience and you need to be able to map their pain points and typically how our conversation would go. I would imagine, I’ve never used a bot before, but I would imagine you need to be able to almost do a role play in your head about what questions you want to ask, what answers they’re likely to come back with and build some kind of a decision tree around it and then build your chatbot around that. Would that be correct?
Molly Pittman: 19:28
Yeah, that’s definitely a part of the process. I think it, you can start, and an even simpler way though, I mean each hat has what are called growth tools and these are basically different entry points that would open a messenger conversation. So for example, manychat can, mini chat can create a URL that when clicked opens up Facebook messenger conversation. So you could put that in your website, you could put that in an email. There are also widgets that you could overlay on your website that opens in Messenger. You can go from a Facebook ad and use the Jason growth tool and that will open in Messenger. So there are a lot of simple ways to get started and I always tell people to get started passively. So what I mean by that, my favorite growth tool is actually the checkbox growth tool. And what this allows you to do, it gives you a little bit of code that you can put below one of your opt-in boxes.
Molly Pittman: 20:32
So imagine you have a lead magnet or a Webinar or something on your website that people are signing up for, or maybe you’re running ads to this page. A simple thing that you can do is just put this check box below the opt-in box. So people will still enter their normal contact information and they’ll also have the opt option to check the messenger box. This will not hurt your conversion rate on your opt-in box that already exist. But what I’m finding is that about 30 to 40% of people also click that box. So what this does is that opt-in form can operate as usual, but it also adds this person as a subscriber into manychat and you can tag them to put them into a sequence like an email. You can, as you said, sit down and really figure out the messaging, the automated conversation you want to have with them after they become a subscriber.
Molly Pittman: 21:35
But this is a very easy passive way to start generating, generating messenger’s subscribers from the traffic that you’re already getting to your website. You don’t have to build a fancy Bot, very, very simple. Another thing, a strategy that is great for getting started. If you’re already running Facebook ads, for example, to a lead magnet or a Webinar, traditionally we would run an ad, Hey, get this free, you know, Facebook ad template. Someone would click on the ad, they would go over to the landing page age, they would put their contact information in and now they’ve become a lead. An alternative to that is testing messenger to where the ad is still promising the free thing. Maybe it’s a recipe guide or a free meditation or whatever it is for your business. And when they click on the ad, instead of it going over to the landing page for them to fill in the contact information, it would just immediately open in Messenger.
Molly Pittman: 22:34
Now what’s beautiful about that is they become a subscriber. You can still ask for their email address and use Zapier to push that over to your email service providers. So you’re still getting the email, what you can ask whatever questions you want and collect whatever data you want, their phone number or you automatically get their first, last name, their location and their gender. And then you can continue to follow up with them in messenger, whatever that particular customer journey is for you or move it over to email or a text or you know, whatever is best, whatever’s working for you right now. But really to get messenger marketing up and going today, it’s actually doesn’t require a building a complex Bot. You can either passively start to generate subscribers from your website or traffic you’re already getting, or you could start to add messenger is a possible communication channel and marketing funnels that, that are already working for you.
Ash Roy: 23:35
And are these GDPR compliant? For those who are not familiar with GDPR, it’s general data protection regulation. Legislation that was passed recently requires us to get explicit consent from people in the EU or traveling through the EU when they subscribed to our list and we have to tell them what we’re going to do with their data and all that sort of stuff. So is this all compliant with Gdpr?
Molly Pittman: 24:00
So to my understanding it is, if you go to blog.minichat.com there is an article on a manychat’s blog that we wrote last fall sometime about this. I can’t remember the specifics, but there’s information in there for you to become compliant.
Ash Roy: 24:19
Right. And I believe you have a course on how to get started with manychat and it’s a free course. So everyone listening is going to want a piece of that course. They, how do they get it? Because I’m going to post it in the show notes of this episode, which by the way you will get at productiveinsights.com/molly-pittman
Molly Pittman: 24:35
Love it. I yes, course.mini chat.com you’ll find over 10 hours of free video content, not only on, we first start out by explaining all of the pieces of building a Bot and understanding messenger marketing. And then I have different plays that I put in there. So for example, the one that I just described about delivering a lead magnet through Facebook messenger, that’s a particular play where I show an example and how to set it up. So yeah, enjoy that guys.
Ash Roy: 25:09
Cool, well definitely go and check it out. It’s free. It’ll be insane not to messenger is where the action is happening right now. So if you want to educate yourself about that for nothing, go to course.minichat.com and you will have our lovely Molly take you through the paces and teach you how to get yourself working with manychat. But as you said, Molly, it’s very simple to get started. You can use a checkbox option below opt-ins and also incorporate it into a webinar template and you can think of your many chat or your messenger list as something that would augment your email list. And you’re able to then build a more holistic marketing platform or marketing assets where you’re not just building an email list but you’re building a bought list and email list, a retargeting list. So the power of combining all of those is great and multichannel marketing is increasingly important in a cacophonic world.
Molly Pittman: 26:11
You must. And you know what’s interesting, the huge benefit of messenger I didn’t really touch on is that it is still so untouched by marketers. And so when you send a message as a business, I mean it might actually ping someone’s phone, it might be, you know, there could be a notification that doesn’t really happen with email anymore because we’re so, email is just so crowded. It’s so busy. And that is, that is one of the huge benefits here is that when you do generate that subscriber and you do broadcast messages to them, they are likely going to open. Open rates are 70 to 90% plus on messenger now and that is really, that is the currency today attention and the fact that we have a platform where we can use that we can use as marketers that allows us to get that high of a percentage of attention. That’s incredible.
Ash Roy: 27:14
Oh totally. You know, funny story, I interviewed Kevin Rogers about copywriting and I said to him, you know Kevin, attention is a new currency and I was very proud of myself. I thought that I’d come up with this amazing terminal title of the episode, was attention to the new currency and then I googled it in about 10 people that thought of it before. So Hey, great minds think alike, but attention is the new currency for sure. I totally agree. And Facebook messenger is one of the places to get it at the moment. Let’s talk about biggest challenges and action steps. What are the biggest challenges you’ve seen people face when it comes to getting started with messenger marketing and what action steps can they take today to overcome them and just get started? You’ve already hinted at a couple of things. You’ve said that it’s very easy to get started. You don’t need to overcomplicate things. I love that. What else can they do to just take action today while they’re listening to this episode and give themselves a result?
Molly Pittman: 28:10
Yeah, I mean the biggest mistake is the over complication of this because it could be so complex. I mean, think about it, it’s the opportunities are endless, but most of us don’t have that amount of time and we’re not Bot developers. So pick one part of your marketing strategy, whether it’s lead generation, whether it’s more monetization focused inside of the mini chat course, I have the plays split up into acquisition and monetization plays. So go pick one of those and execute one of the plays inside of that course. Because if you start to implement one strategy, it’s easy to set up. You can see the power of messenger, then you can start to build from there versus you know, opening up the word doc and starting just with that, that blinking, you know that the, what’s it called, the blinking dash right there. This the blinking cursor. I couldn’t think of that or yes, it’s telling you you’re starting with nothing. You are not, go pick one of those plays in the minichat course. It’s modules four and five and implement one of those. Start to see results. Start to learn. It’s like learning a new language and then go from there to build your overall strategy.
Ash Roy: 29:32
Okay, great. So I’m going to just do a quick recap of this conversation. Respect your time and I appreciate it. We’re getting close to the end of our conversation. We talked about Facebook and Google being different platforms and they both serve their purposes in a marketing strategy. Biggest thing that differentiates them is probably intent. When someone goes to Google, they go there to find a solution. When someone goes to Facebook, they go there to be entertained. Facebook has had some challenges around privacy, but Facebook is trying to evolve. The conversation in Facebook has moved from being in the feed towards Messenger. We’ve talked about some very clear actionable steps people can take around getting themselves started with messenger, not least of which is go to course.minichat.com to get yourself started for free and our very own Molly is going to be showing you how to do that. Definitely head over to the show notes because I’m going to have a lot of really useful content in there and you can access those at productiveinsights.com/molly-pittman. That’s M O L L Y hyphen P I T T M A N Molly, is there anything else you would like to add?
Molly Pittman: 30:40
This thought just came to my mind because we’re talking about a lot of change here. This is a huge shift in the digital marketing industry. Probably the biggest shift we’ve seen in like seven to ten years and so a lot of what I see from marketers today or business owners is apprehension to change and so things start to change. Facebook changes and we create this story, this negative story about Facebook trying to ruin our business, or I can’t evolve because of my age or I don’t have time to learn this stuff. And I just don’t believe that’s true. And so the more that you accept change and the more that you educate yourself about why platforms like Facebook are making the changes that they are, not only will you better understand the changes, but you’ll find that all of this comes a lot easier because instead of, you know, resisting the change, you’re just going with the flow. And I think that’s huge, especially in an industry like digital marketing where things change every hour every day. We must be open to that. And I just think that helps us overall as marketers.
Ash Roy: 32:04
I couldn’t agree more. I think changes the only constant that is probably a great message for anyone in any form of business today or life really nice. Exactly. I couldn’t agree more. I think if you if you’re not willing to embrace change you’re going to struggle. The degree to which you are receptive to it and the degree to which you welcome it and see it as something positive is the degree to which you will be able to adapt to it and take advantage of the tectonic shifts that are happening at an increasing rate in the advertising world, but in the business world in general, in a world of constant and the rate of disruption is just increasing. So that’s great advice, Molly. Thank you for that. Now I’ll be seeing you at DigitalMarketer down under because we are both going to be on stage.
Ash Roy: 32:51
I‘m going to be, you’re going to be speaking and I’m going to be on the content marketing expert panel run by a Russ Henneberry.
Molly Pittman: 32:57
So amazing. I can’t wait to see you there, ash.
Ash Roy: 33:01
Yeah, same here. I really look forward to seeing you there too. If you’re listening to this episode and you’re going to be at digital marketer down under, which is on the 23rd and 24th of August, yes, you can go to DMDU.com for you to find out all the details. Sonya Keenan runs a great show and she’ll be hosting digital marketing down under. Please come and say hello to Molly and I, if you’ll see us there, we’d love to say hi, please subscribe and stay in touch. So thank you Molly for being on the show. It was lovely to have you and maybe we can have you on again soon sometime.
Molly Pittman: 33:33
Absolutely. Thank you ash. Great Work and I will see you on the gold coast.
Ash Roy: 33:38
Sounds good. Bye for now.
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