235. How to Raise Prices without Losing Customer with Chris Do
Want to know how to charge $30,000 for a 45-minute speaking engagement?
In this exclusive video, Chris Do shares his proven strategies to boost your speaking fees.
Learn the essential techniques for building a powerful social media presence, delivering unparalleled value, and asserting your worth with confidence.
Chris takes you through his journey from free speaking gigs to commanding top-dollar fees, offering actionable insights for creative professionals and public speakers aiming to elevate their careers. Discover expert tips on positioning yourself as a premium speaker, leveraging storytelling for effective personal branding, and mastering the art of negotiation to increase your speaking fees. Don’t miss out on Chris Do's invaluable advice on transforming your speaking engagements into lucrative opportunities.
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00:00 Introduction: From Hundreds to Thousands
00:05 The Power of Asking
00:42 Breaking Down the Pricing Strategy
01:12 Building a Speaking Career
01:41 The Impact of Social Following
02:40 Pandemic's Influence on Speaking Fees
03:23 Negotiation Tactics
04:09 Valuing Your Worth
09:33 The Concept of Reassuringly Expensive
12:03 The Importance of Story in Branding
19:24 The Apple Experience
Ash Roy and Chris Do's Video Transcript (This transcript has been auto-generated. Artificial Intelligence is still in the process of perfecting itself. There may be some errors in transcription):
Chris:
Here's the thing about life, you don't get what you don't ask for it, Ash.
Ash:
When people buy something, they're buying a story. In most cases, you need to run toward the fear.
I asked Chris, was it your Emmy Award that allowed you to charge this much?
Chris:
I think the Emmy is less important here.
Ash:
Okay, so if it wasn't the Emmy Award, then what was it?
Chris:
Afterwards, I realized something. It has to be 30k and I need to be paid more.
Ash:
What did Chris realize? Here's another important question. Can you do the same thing Chris did? The answer? I think you can. I think we all can.
To find out exactly how, listen through to the end of this video. Here's to charging higher prices, earning what you deserve, and living a better life. Let's do this.
How do you increase your prices from a couple hundred dollars an hour to 30 grand for a 45 minute talk? I'm sure it helps that you've got an Emmy Award. If someone's listening to this and they want to charge higher prices, what's your best advice?
Chris:
I think I have to break this question down into a couple different parts. It's a compounded question. If you're a creative service provider, which is what I was for 20, plus years, that's one answer. And then if I'm a public speaker, there's a different answer.
I'll go with the easier question first. If you want to be a public speaker and you want to be able to charge more, first of all, you have to put in the reps. This is very important. So there's the part that nobody knows you, nobody pays for anything. And actually I pay to speak, meaning they pay me nothing.
I have to get myself in a car, drive, pay for gas, pay for parking, pay for food, and then speak and then get myself and then leave. Because there's zero budget for you. And you do that for a while, and you suck for a while, and you're, you're learning your craft and that's important. But the biggest game changer for me are two things that you probably cannot control.
Number one is me growing my social following. Because the number of social followers, whether you like it or not, has an impact on the perception of who you are. I think the Emmy is less important here because I know a lot of people who've won prestigious awards but aren't invited to speak and aren't paid anything.
Because I think that from the lens of the event organizer, they need to put butts in seats. You need to draw people so they, I think falsely assume because you have a big following that when you announce that there's some cachet and then people like say, oh I need to see this person speak. It's like your favorite band playing one song and you want to hear them speak in a small menu.
So I get that part. And then what I see is then there's demand and I get, you know, better speaking slots. At first you get the worst speaking slots. It's usually like after lunch when everybody's comatose or something like that. I don't know what the worst speaking spots are but I do know the best speaking spot is the closing keynote or the opening keynote.
So I start moving away from the center and I start going to opening keynote, opening keynote, and then closing keynote. So I'm like, what is going on? Such a big responsibility.
The second component of it outside of growing a larger social following is when the pandemic hit, It made it a lot easier for me to negotiate because before event organizers, they have a lot of expenses.
The venue, hotels, logistics, production, AV, even though it looks like they're making a lot of money, most of them, as far as I know, break even or lose money and it's a passion project, right?
And so when we went over to the pandemic, well, they had to reinvent their business model. So they're doing a lot more.
Zoom conferences. Well, what are your expenses? Kind of like nothing. 30 a month. I don't know what Zoom costs. It can't be that much. And so now they realize something that they should have known all along. What is an event or a conference without the talent? And you and I, my friend, are the talent. So then I start negotiating and say, well, it's 10, 000 to speak.
They're like, for a Zoom call, Chris? I'm like, yep. It's not about the Zoom call. It's not about me getting my car. In fact, I should charge you even more for getting my car. So then they all of a sudden start to agree. And that changes the whole pay structure because I was trying to get 10, 15, 000 pretty consistently.
And I wasn't getting it until the pandemic happened. Afterwards, I realized something. It is easier people to get them to say yes, when they have no other choice. And if you stand your ground, they either decide you're worth it or you're not. And I'm not going to sell you that I'm worth it. You have to decide.
I just say, that's the price. Like, why is that? Because that's the price. I have other things I can do. If you want me, let me know. And the way you want me is you give me a deposit for half. Otherwise, I'm out. I'll book something else. And so that started to rewire my brain. And then sooner than later, I'm like 10, 000, I'm speaking too much now.
I'm on the road all the time. And then when I calculate the time in which I'm on the road preparing and building the keynotes, and then the after stuff, the VIP events and the parties, it's a lot of me I'm giving away. So then I said, you know what, that's not enough. I need to just do the next big jump.
The next big jump, I don't go in small increments. I go in two Xs. So from 15 grand, I just say it's 30 grand. Here's something that I, I don't say that often, Ash, which is this. I go to conferences, I'm a really critical person. I'm in the backstage, I'm in the green room, I'm in the audience, and I'm listening to people, Bomb.
Talk about themselves. Show you their portfolio and just go blah blah blah. Not entertaining. Not engaging. Super awkward. And here I am putting my heart and soul trying to deliver value. Be engaging. Helping them with social promotion. Hanging out. Because a lot of speakers what they do is they, they speak and they disappear.
Because you know, I don't blame them. They're equally awkward and shy. They don't want to be around people. But I, I'm, I'm already here. You're, I'm already bought and paid for. I want to go talk to the people now. So that's when I realized, you know what, it's 30k. It has to be 30k. And I think now it's even low because I hear people getting paid way more than that.
And I think, do I bring more value? Do I move more butts in seats? And I think I do. And if that's the case, then I need to be paid more. And here's the thing about life. You don't get what you don't ask for it, Ash. And if you don't ask for it, they're not going to volunteer to pay you more. Here's the other part to this equation before somebody misunderstands what I'm saying.
If you charge 20, 000, if you charge 80, 000, I don't care what you charge. Bring more value than you charge. You get booked all the time. So what people do is they'll, they'll say, I heard Chris say it should be 15 grand. They ask for it and they go and they don't prepare and they're not that good. They haven't put in their time and their craft and they suck.
That's kind of the end of it.
Ash:
But how do you demonstrate the value to the person hosting the event before they book you?
Chris:
The way that you do that is what they do is they're auditing you. And you know where they find you? At another event. Event organizers and producers go to other people's events.
Because what are they doing? Very safely, they're picking who they think are good, who brings the goods, so that they're learning on someone else's dime. So of the 15-20 speakers that have an event, they're like, those four I like, I'm gonna reach out to them. They got a sample, it's like the Mrs. Fields thing, like, taste the cookie, if you like it, buy the whole cookie.
And so I make sure I'm not just showing up, and showing up is not giving a talk, it's a performance. It's an audio visual human performance in a connection and they see me at the parties talking to people not being weird and saying Oh, i'm happy to take pictures and sign things i'm game. So they see that they're like, okay This person knows how to show up and deliver and they're mapping it to their audience and what they think. The next component is when you get on the phone and I usually don't take a booking Until I know what they want me to talk about in the format because I need to be a discretionary seller of services.
I have to use discretion. I have to be discriminatory. You're doing something on this and I don't think I'm a good speaker for that. I don't want to show up to that because it just, it's going to make me feel like I have to do all this extra work and I'm not an expert at that. There's probably better people to do that than me.
And I think they can respect that. That makes them want you even more. Well, what would work for you, Chris? Well, I'd like to speak on this. Does that work for you? Yes, it does. Well, let's get contracts drafted and I'll be there. And I'm really easy going. One of the things I learned from being on the road and being in the service industry is make it easier for the people who hire you.
Make their job easier. Sign the contracts, show up on time, go to rehearsals, do everything. The only thing that I don't do and I don't comply with and sometimes it aggravates them is I don't send them my deck ahead of time. They always ask, where's your deck? I'm like, I'm still working on it. And the truth is, I'm still writing it.
I'm not even working
on it yet.
Ash:
Do you tend to leave things to the last minute, or is there, is there a reason for that?
Chris:
There is a reason for it, because I'm reading, researching, writing, pontificating what it is that I think is the most relevant thing to them. I don't give cookie cutter talks. I don't have a book of talks where I'm just like, yeah, one of these three, you could just pick it on a la carte menu.
And I think that's wonderful for people who can do that. I just don't. I just don't do that. It's tough. And I think if you want to be a professional speaker, you should have a couple of templatized talks where you can give it a drop of a dime. So that's why I don't do that.
Ash:
It's very interesting that, uh, listening to you because pre pandemic, I was doing quite a lot of public speaking and just realized as we're having this conversation that I've kind of shrunk back into my, into my cave a bit.
I used to be an extrovert. I don't know what happened. I've become an introvert now. And I remember Seth Godin telling me in episode 200, he told me a story about. If you want to be a marathon runner and you go to a coach who's going to teach you how to run a marathon, this is a typical sethism. He's not going to tell you how to run a marathon without getting tired.
He or she is going to tell you where to put the tired, but they're not going to teach you how not to get tired. And basically what he was trying to tell me is if you're feeling fear, you're probably doing something important. In most cases, you need to run toward the fear. One of my members, I have a membership community like you do.
You mentioned, uh, something about music bands and stuff. And I just want to say, I'm a huge fan of Coldplay and Jet, and you've worked with them. So that's just amazing to me. But one of my members, uh, his name is Philippe Guichard. And I want to give him a shout out because he said something very interesting to me in one of our membership calls yesterday.
And that was, he said, I was, I said to him, I'm going to be talking to Chris Do tomorrow. And he was like, wow, I, I like his work. And I said, he said, you know, in terms of pricing, I think it's important to be reassuringly expensive. I love that phrase. Kudos to you, Philippe, for saying it. Would you like to share your thoughts on what it means to be reassuringly expensive?
Chris:
I don't know if that's my term. I love it. So I'm going to pretend like we've had that conversation and it came out of my mouthhole. So we know what expensive is. Expensive means out of reach. Too much. Not worth it. Expensive, right? It's like a thing that we have to contemplate a lot. And then we know what it means to be reassuring.
Where we feel confident in our in our position, in our decision. So reassuringly expensive. We put those two words together. My deduction is it's worth it. You're making a good decision. You know, there's something that I'm relatively new to is the world of luxury goods. And here's the weird thing. They're very expensive.
Is a jacket or sweater worth two grand? I don't think so. It didn't cost that much to make it. I know that for sure. But here's the weird thing. If you look in the secondhand market, which I've, I purchased a few things, secondhand market, they hold their value. So my wife told me, don't go to the second hand market, just buy it in the store, get the full experience and whatever it is that you want.
And then when you're tired of the piece, you can sell it in the second hand market and you'll only pay a few hundred bucks to have worn it and to have enjoyed it and it doesn't go into the landfill, it's great. So don't buy that junk anymore, buy the stuff that you really want. She's given me full permission to indulge in my shopping adventures, which is not a good thing for me.
Don't, don't encourage me, babe. Right? So that I think is reassuringly expensive. When you buy something or you do something, you know, you're getting more value or enjoyment from it versus what you've paid. And I think it's our job to earn the trust of our client, to reassure them along the way, to reduce lost, pain and risk.
Ash:
I want to share something, a couple of things around that. When I did my MBA, which I have to say I was quite skeptical of at the time, and I'm still skeptical of it in some ways now because some of the people who graduate with MBAs think they're God's gift to humanity and they're not. One of the biggest things I learned from my MBA was how little I know.
Price signaling was something they talked about and I thought at the time it was hogwash. Turns out I'm wrong. Oh, I was wrong. What's the difference between somebody who pays 5, 000 for a Prada handbag and $50 for a functionally identical bag? Maybe the stitching is not quite as good, maybe the materials aren't as good, but does the same job.
The difference is, and I love this, Seth Godin told me this, he said, when people buy something, they're buying a story. So when a person buys a Prada handbag, they're buying themselves, In fact, one of my colleagues actually bought one of these. And that's what I'm thinking of that as an example, my wife's colleagues, she dropped 5 Grand on a Prada handbag.
And I was like, why would you do that? She was like, I don't know. And then I remembered what Seth said. She has worked her tail off. She's gotten to where she is. She carries a lot of risk as, as part of a job. Maybe she felt like I deserve a treat. And so she dropped 5 grand for a bag that, she felt I've earned the right to this status.
So maybe that's what we do when we buy Chris Do. I don't mean to sound crass, but when we buy Chris Do for 45 minutes, we are buying a story. We have told ourselves by watching Chris Do perform for a period of time consistently, provide good content consistently on social media, has built a YouTube channel.
To 2.42 million subscribers has got half a million dollar following on LinkedIn. And we believe that that is what it's worth. And my point being brand has value. Would you agree?
Chris:
It has a lot of value. This is a Michael Margolis idea, or at least I heard it from him. A product with a story is a brand and product with no story is a commodity.
And the way that we measure brand value is the amount of money somebody's willing to pay over a comparable product. We can also look at that premium as goodwill. They've earned the goodwill from you. And the example would be, say, like water. Water is a commodity. We can actually get it for free. You can collect water almost anywhere in the world and drink for free.
Yet we don't because of convenience and for lots of different reasons. So here in America we have like Arrowhead or something, spring water, and it's the cheapest water you can buy. It's like 39 cents a bottle. And then you can buy a bottle of Voss. And Voss is like, say, three dollars a bottle. Same, maybe a little bit more liquid than that, but it's the glass jar or bottle it used to be, and now it's plastic.
And it's like, why did somebody pay a drastically different price, like on an order of 10x, 100x different? And the reason is because they've told us a really good story. Like Fiji is a great example that's close to you. Fiji is like, Filtered through volcanic rock, never touched by man. And they have this image of Fiji in the back of the bottle and you look at it and it's like, That's right, my water was not touched by anybody.
Filtered through thousand year old volcanic rock. It's a good story.
Ash:
It's a great story.
Chris:
You know, Arrowhead, on the other hand, is filtered through some river and it's filtered water from a Pepsi Cola company or something like that. That's not a good story. Avian from the Swiss Alps or something. I'm like, okay, or the French Alps.
I'm like, okay, it's a story. I know you're a fan of Seth and you've spoken to him. I don't know if you read All Marketers are Liars, but Seth goes into this in great detail. He says, and this backs up your observation about story, is that we judge the taste of the wine before we drink it.
Yes.
We've already told ourself a story because of the bottle that Mostly because of the price, sometimes the packaging of the label like Sauvignon, you know from the blah blah blah vineyard I don't even know my wine So that's as far as I can go and he said that if you're a wine snob or a cognac snob You order a glass hand blown glass from exquisite sources and handmade whatever it is And then the wine tastes better scientifically it does not It's stable, inert glass.
It's not going to change the flavor, but because of the weight in your hand and the ads and the images you've seen before and the people you admire drink it a certain way. When you drink it that way, the wine tastes better. So they're lies that we tell our self, and this is all marketers are liars. We, as the consumer, are complicit in the lie.
We gladfully, gleefully, volunteer into the lie. So you know what? You drive the car before you turn on the engine. Because, like most boys, at least in America, you had a poster of a couple different cars probably in your bedroom. It was probably the Ferrari Testarossa. It's the Porsche 911. Or it was the Lamborghini Countach.
And we were children then, we don't even know what cars are, we can't drive, but we, we've lusted after these things. Because, the people that we admire, and the images that were put out into the world, young, virile men, beautiful women, living the life, it's James Bond, or , I'm the driver, when hearts and minds, we want to be that one day.
So it's been a story we've been telling ourselves for long enough now, and our peers tell us the same thing. Oh, one day I'm going to get the Porsche. One day I'm going to get the Lamborghini. So when we can finally afford it, we fulfill a promise that we made to ourselves as children. So it completes the loop.
Now your wife's colleague. who bought the product Prada bag, bought the story. But I think it's a little bit more complicated than that. So do you mind if I go a little bit deeper?
Ash:
Oh, please. I'm fascinated. Yes.
Chris:
Okay. Cause I do study brands and I'm, I'm just a geek about this kind of stuff. Okay. So we look at two bags, one could be a knockoff or just a similar looking shape, but it's $50 and the other one's 5, 000.
So what's the difference? Now, most people will say you're a sucker for buying product. That's stupid. It's so overpriced. You deserve to spend all your money, dummy. And there's lots of people like that. Like, my dad, that's what my dad would think. He's like, this is ridiculous. He's not calling you stupid, but he's like, why would you ever do this?
This doesn't make any sense. Utility. If everything can come from Costco, he's very happy. Because it's a good price. The Kirkland brand is quality for him. But you know what? As one who makes things, as a craftsperson, I pay attention to lots of details. And you know, when you touch the material, the kind of vinyl that they're using, it's a little sticky.
It has a different sheen. And you know this, when you get into a car that's a cheap car, the plastic trim feels cheap. The German brands have engineered or sourced high quality plastic that costs more money so that you don't know as a consumer. But when you touch it, it feels more premium. This is true about leather, about textiles, about everything.
The wood and the grain and the finishing of it. The level of shininess. How it makes you feel. There's something called materiality. So, the materials is usually where discount companies make shortcuts. They make shortcuts in the materials, in the construction. So instead of doing double stitching, uh, some kind of taped hem or laser cut, they do it a different way.
And it's all these little decisions where they cut corners that add to this totality of the experience. So you give me a bag, you strip off the labels and you say, which one is better? Which one would you pay more money for? Probably 10 times I'd tell you which one's better. You know, and I met a fashion designer.
He has a brand and he was recounting stories about, um, I think Yoji Yamamoto. And Yoji Yamamoto walked over, touched something, he goes, Mmm, he's like Japanese cotton, you know? And he could just tell by touching it, like where it came from.
Yeah.
So there's like God in his fingertips. He can touch it and he knows.
You can't hide that So the Prada bag is actually not always made from better materials, constructed better, and the details and the proportions are exactly right. And you and I know this. You're wearing a, uh, what is that, are those Apple, what kind of brand headphones are you wearing? Yeah, they're
Ash:
AirPods Max.
Chris:
Yes, AirPods Max, right? So you're wearing like $400 headphones, I believe. Yeah.
Ash:
In Australia, they're $800,
but yes.
Chris
I'm sorry.
Ash:
It hurts me more than it hurts you, man.
Chris:
So Apple is one of these companies that spends a lot of time thinking about the user experience and the user experience. begins before you even decide to buy.
Okay. It's that zero moment of truth and you're like, I'm not even sure I need headphones, but I'm going to start looking. And then you see these reviews and you see other people that you admire, audiophiles or influencers or fashionistas. And you're like, Oh, that kind of looks interesting. And then eventually you make your way to the Apple store and you put them on like they feel pretty good and you're like Justifying to yourself.
Is it worth the expense? You're like screw it. I live once my ears are worth it You pay the thing and you get the box and it's beautifully packaged and the experience And the ease in which they can get you in and out of an apple store is unparalleled Unparalleled then you get home and you cut it open and you slide the box open.
First of all, they solved a big problem It's sturdy plastic wrapping, but when you want to take it apart, it falls apart instantly Did you notice that? It's like a little tab, you pull it and the whole thing falls apart. Yes,
yes.
You buy something from another manufacturer, you gotta take out the knife, the scissors, you're working at it, it's like it's childproof.
Clearly, I'm a child, I can't get into it.
Ash:
Yes.
Chris:
And then you open the box, and the cardboard, it's designed to have a certain level of friction where it makes a satisfying thwomp.
ASh:
Yes.
Chris:
You pull it off. I notice these things, and it lands with a heft, but not too tough, And not so slippery. And then all the materials.
It's like origami. It's a present. You're unwrapping this thing, and it's a present from you, to you, for you.
Ash:
I love that. I think it was Guy Kawasaki I was talking to about this, but as you probably know, he was the chief evangelist of Apple, and he worked with Steve Jobs for eight years, and I think I was telling him about my first experience when I bought an iPod.
You know, they don't sell them anymore, but it was this square shaped thing, and it was absolutely gorgeous. It had the slightly grainy feel to it, and I was an Apple hater, like a lot of people at the time. This is, we're going back about 15 years, and I hated Apple because everybody else hated Apple and you know, they're overpriced and they're all marketing and a gimmicky and all that stuff.
But when I actually experienced that iPod, a lot of things were happening subconsciously that I didn't even realize, but I just fell in love with that device. Then I brought it home and I took it for a run. And then there was this pleasant surprises like in the middle of the click wheel There was this thing that you pressed it and it was, you played a power song.
You know, it would play a power song from your playlist where you can sprint during your run. And I was just like, just continuous little surprises....
